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 Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D

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Heimdall
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PostSubject: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:09 pm

Ulrin and I had our first IC fight today thanks to Zaz's short temper, and I came up with some rules for fights and preps.

1) A posting order needs to be formed for fights, especially when preps are involved.
2) Preps, when held/sustained, need to have some kind of backfire chance. Like, if this happens:

Quote :
Balrog charges his laser. [1/3]
Gandalf says "Oh no!" and attacks.
Balrog holds the energy and dodges. [1/3]

Etc. I think we need to come up with rules regarding prepping under duress/being attacked, etc. Here's what I propose:

If you're prepping and someone attacks you, you roll a d20 minus the number of preps you're at. So if you're at 2 preps, and someone attacks you, and you dodge, you roll a d20-2. If you roll a 15 or higher, you gather enough energy to go up a prep. (So in that example, you could roll a 15, 16, 17, or 18 and go to the third prep on your next post.) If you roll 8-14, you maintain that prep. (In our example, you'd dodge successfully and stay at prep 2.) If you roll a 2-7, you fail to maintain the energy and it fizzles out, but you get no backlash. And if you roll a 1, you get backlash! That does mean, of course, that if you're trying to hold more than 5 preps, it's impossible for you to dodge AND move to the next prep. But I think that's acceptable, since it's so much power.

You also roll this even if you're not dodging, but you want to hold off your attack until the next turn (or the turn after).

Is that okay with everyone? Leaping all around while holding onto magical energy just doesn't seem right to me. (Sorry Ulrin. ;p)

Also, no physical attacking while prepping is I think a good idea.

Uhh uhh.. what else. I think that's it. XD Any other ideas? I'm sure someday we'll make a page with all our magicstuff on it. :p

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:20 pm

I approve massively. Dice are a spellcaster's bff. ...Well, the bff of the opponents of the spellcaster, anyway.

Excellent system, Kain, thank you!

If other folks think this is good I can tack this on to the Magic topic in the Informashunz forum for easier reference.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:30 pm

Looks a'right, yeah. *nod* I approve of this system.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:37 am

Yeah sounds easy and not too dicey (dohohoho)
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:45 am

"Thumbs up for this"

Seems fair, leapfrog mage was fun to watch though. ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:42 am

Frogmage ftw. Stuff like that is already calculated into my own system, however. Ulrin earned a nice fat fail counter for what he pulled there. You don't drag chaos around for that long without getting smacked by it.
I was actually hoping to pull off a cantrip combo, but Ulrin didn't get the room to lay out his plan. The flying chair totally wasn't part of it XD
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:04 am

Aaah didn't really know that counted as a fail counter, any way to make that a bit more obvious?
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:16 am

Maybe I should add it into the brackets next time. ;D
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:59 am

Yeah, I'd appreciate that. >D But I think it should be in the system anyway.

I also would love to somehow automate it... like there will be a DS button that sets "calculate prep failure" and when you do, it'll ask you if you're casting or sustaining and how many preps you're at. Then, it spits out the diceroll and if you pass or fail. Just as another nifty RP tool.

Oh oh! I also had a question about dynamic magic. This is something I've never gotten an answer too--some people do it one way, and others do it in others! So basically, assume you have this scenario:
Quote :
Gandalf charges a fireball. [1/4]
Big Orc says "Oh no!" and runs for Gandalf, but can't reach him yet.
Gandalf continues to charge the fireball. [2/4]
Big Orc reaches Gandalf and smash his face!
Gandalf gasps and lets the fireball loose early! [3/3]

I don't know how I feel about that. In THAT particular scenario, I think I'm okay with it, since they're both FIREBALLS. One is just a weaker fireball.

However, what about flipping spells? Like this:
Quote :
Gandalf charges a fireball. [1/4]
Big Orc says "Oh no!" and runs for Gandalf, but can't reach him yet.
Gandalf continues to charge the fireball. [2/4]
Big Orc turns into a Balrog!
Gandalf gasps and changes his fireball into a beam of powerful light.[3/4]
etc.

Or what if it's an ambiguous spell? Where you prep gathering energy but you don't say what you're going to do? I think that should be allowed, but only if you give yourself a dynamic magic strength. It could be worth a few points, and lets people cast ambiguous spells, deciding what to do at the last minute. The amount of points it's worth is the max number of preps you can leave ambiguous! y/n/not needed?

I don't think you should be able to blatantly prep a fireball and then just switch to another spell, though--unless you maybe hold the prep for one turn while you manipulate it into the other spell (complete with backfire chance, except there's no chance to move forward).

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:15 am

Hmm, well I always think of preps to be the ritual the caster does to cast his spell. The process of incantation, aiming, charging, firing. But indeed a fireball can have many proportions.
The dynamic casting seems odd to me, but perhaps sometimes possible. Of course, one shouldn't go all like. "Charging my fire! But oh! I shoot my frost ball now :D" Pe
rhaps only change it into a spell of the same school?
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:18 am

I have to agree that spell switching is a bit of cheating on the mage part and I wouldn't mind going with your suggestion on the end of your post.
And like Gil said. For example: the mage simply changes the shape of his fireball or breaks it off into a multitude of smaller fireballs.

Right, some edits are in place here.
With chaos being a dynamic school in nature, I'll just add in a prep for every dynamically cast spell in which the spell is actually formed. Is that ok with you guys?

Heimderp already seems to like the idea =D
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:28 pm

Gotcha, Ulrin. And yes I do.

Does anyone like the idea of a DSed backfire check? I think it'd help remind people.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:56 pm

I think I might like the idea-- it could be given a shot, certainly! *nodnod*

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:29 pm

DS button = yes. That way people don't have to remember dice rolls. I think that'd be so much more convenient!

Now, about ambiguous spells--there's really no way to check that. I dunno aboot you guys, but when I'm prepping, what everyone sees/what I write is pretty vague. If I switched spells mid-cast, you wouldn't know the difference. It SHOULD be that way--unless your character's a spellcaster as well and can identify spells before they're even flung, telling you what I'm doing is just a temptation for you to powerplay with the knowledge even if your character shouldn't have it.

Howevers, generally, it's easy to infer what TYPE of spell somebody's casting--fire crackling at the fingertips, pulling water from the air for ice, etc. are pretty obvious. If someone was beginning to rev up what's obviously a fireball and switches mid-prep to a lightning bolt, that's just not cool, yo.

So yeah, I do think switching spells should be acceptable, but only so long as it's from the same school.

On that note, I don't think ambiguous spellcasting should ever be possible, period. It's just too easy to abuse. One of the benefits of playing a fighter over a spellcaster is mobility and more freedom when it comes to acting in the thick of combat. We're already giving spellcasters a little bit of mobility here, so I don't think giving them the ability to charge up large amounts of power and then adapt it perfectly to whatever situation is present at the end of their prepping is very fair. After all, that's the point of using cantrips--instant, if weak, effects immediately beneficial to whatever's going on now. That's why coming up with creative ways to use them is so necessary to becoming a good spellcaster!

And anyway, if your spell is suddenly rendered moot or dangerous to you if you were to cast it by the Time you're done gathering magic, you can STILL switch it to a different spell from the same school, or drop the preps entirely.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:50 pm

Well, that makes sense, but I don't want to totally kill Ulrin's chaos magic. That's where this discussion originally stemmed from. He told me that Ulrin's magic is fluctuate-y until he's ready to actually cast the spell. He decided to tack on one extra prep for each spell of that nature--fair?

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:02 pm

I don't understand, though. If I remember right, all of his spells have prep counts and very definite effects that all relate to the School of Chaos, and that's like, the only school of magic he has (besides cantripschool), so why would this even matter to him? He can still switch spells within the school!

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:30 pm

You should ask him aboot it. Alls I know is that when we were fighting, the two spells he prepared were really ambiguous. :P I wouldn't have even known there was any fingerwiggling going on if he hadn't put a prep count at the end of his post, let alone know what school of magic it was. I'd fish up the logs, but it was on me laptop.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:33 am

Fished up the log to allow everyone a clear look at the situation.

Ulrin Lightbringer drops his arms next to him, hands made into fists, energy crackling around them "Maybe if you say pretty please." [1/2]
Zazeal clenches his fists as well and vaults over the table, aiming a brutal punch for the center of Ulrin's chest.
Askai slightly bends his knees, one hand reaching towards his boot.
Ulrin Lightbringer leaps aside and rolls away over the floor before getting onto a knee a bit further "Moo." [2/2]
Zazeal whirls to face Ulrin and snatches out to simply grab the fellow's head or throat.
Zazeal: ( Tryand move your avvie, Ulface :o )
Ulrin Lightbringer: [Sowwies!]
Zazeal: ( Dere we go )
Askai edges closer to the fight, deciding not to grab whatever was in his boot.
Ulrin Lightbringer hops onto his feet, catching Zazeal's fist to deflect the blow to the side while trying to leap onto a nearby chair. [2/2]
Ulrin Lightbringer prods Snee.[]
Ulrin Lightbringer: [that should've been wrist, not fist XD]
Zazeal reaches out with his free hand as Ulrin catches the other, trying to grab any part of the man as he jumps up. Even clothes would work!
Ulrin Lightbringer was snatched by the hood as he reached the chair, letting out a yelp as he got caught. Though the male kicked up said chair and with a little magic assistance, aimed it to land on Zazeal.
Zazeal clenches his fist tightly down on the hood. At the chair flies towards him, he grunts and lifts his free, gigantic arm to deflect it. He then tries to grab Ulrin's arm, while still gripping his hood!
Ulrin Lightbringer slips a hand under his robe and takes out his dagger. While Zaz tries to grab his arm he takes the opportunity to stabbitystab the grabbyhand.
Zazeal roars as his hand is met with biting pain! He jerks his head downward in a surprisingly quick headbutt.
Askai spots the shiny weapon and stumbles forward as fast as his old hips can carry him, reaching with his hand for Ulrin's face.
Ulrin Lightbringer: [Oh crap XD]
Zazeal: ( You are going to trip balls, sir. )
You say, "(second thought: powerful mage tripping balls might not be a good thing... ^^)"
Ulrin Lightbringer ducks away to dodge the most of the headbutt, the horns to be precise. Hit by a snout, however, Ulrin would be knocked back. In the meanwhile another stab was aimed upwards to whatever Ulrin could hit.
Zazeal yanks on Ulrin's hood, hopefully hard enough to flip the much-smaller person's body around, which would send the stab askew and put Ulrin's back toward the bull! He makes another grab for anything meaty and not cloth-y.
Askai attempts to wringle his arm between the two fighters and wildly shakes his hand at Ulrin's face, sending small specks of slime flying.
Ulrin Lightbringer was indeed turned, although not completely around. Ulrin uses his dagger to cut away some spare hood pieces so he can roll out of the way once more and under the table, away from grabby hands and heabutts.
Ulrin Lightbringer: [Good thing I made that hood disposable XD]
Zazeal: ( Did he get slimed? )
Ulrin Lightbringer: [Full-body robe took most of it. He's probably covered in specks here and there.]
Zazeal lifts his hoof and kicks over the table, following through with a stomp. (It WAS for the face though)
Askai (it won't work as long as he doesn't inhale/ingest it in anyway)
Zazeal: ( Oh, okay, I thought it was a contact thing~ )
Ulrin Lightbringer crawls through the other table to shoot out at the other end, quickly turning to his adverseries and trying to make a run towards the door. [1/3]
Askai sidesteps to prevent the mage from reaching the exit. His hands defiantly held forward.
Ulrin Lightbringer slices at the hands suddenly nearing him again, bending over a bit to charge the smaller newt with his shoulder.
Zazeal lunges to shove the newt aside. "Let him go! I told him to get the fuck out, didn't I?!"
Ulrin Lightbringer: ^[Oh, also, 2/3]
Zazeal: ( Eh I think orders should be kept for fights, especially when preps are involved )
Ulrin Lightbringer: [Alright!]
Askai stumbles backwards from the minotaur shoving him.
Ulrin Lightbringer makes it over to the door, opening it and turning towards the inside for a moment "Still no explanation as to why you hate a mage so much?" [2/3]
Zazeal cracks his knuckles, prepared to lunge again if need be. "Not all mages, just YOU!"
Askai Straightens his stance again. "You're letting him go after he pulled a weapon on you?"
Ulrin Lightbringer frowns at Zazeal "Why me? I'm probably easier to work with than those tight asses back in the tower." Eyes the shot to the newt "Shut up you."
Zazeal waves the newt down. "I don't appreciate it when folks try and talk circles around me. It makes me ANGRY."
Zazeal: ( Yeah he blew up over a misunderstanding. WHAT OF IT. 8D )
Askai carefully adjusts his footing to dodge the mage's potential attacks.
Ulrin Lightbringer tilts his head "Talk circles around you? It's not like I was hiding anything. Obvious mage robes are obvious. What did you think I was, some advanced queer in a dress?" [3/3]
Zazeal sneers. "You're a fucking foreigner from Primes-know-where! How should I know robes ALWAYS mean magic. Those prissies at the hospital wear 'em too!"
Ulrin Lightbringer chuckles at that "Well, in that case, appologies are in order. But rest assured that I wasn't tricking you to fireball you in the face." Eyes then turned to the Newt "Him at the other hand, I'd roast him over a fire any day.3
Ulrin Lightbringer: [3/3]
Zazeal cracks his knuckles. "I accept your apology," he grunts. "But don't you dare patronize me again."
Askai raises his brow at the mage. "Which part of: YOU pulled the weapon wasn't clear?"
Ulrin Lightbringer seems to calm down as well "I'll remember that next time we meet." Eyes rolled at the newt "You seem to have a lot to learn about this here town. anyway, I'll leave now." and shut went the door.
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:22 am

"Actual spells are only formed moments before casting, molded into their form by the caster's willpower and imagination, making Chaos magic extremely flexible and prone to being unpredictable by the foe.."

Excerpt from his NK app and his site.

It's been a bit deceptive because I generally do follow normal spell casting instead of utilizing Chaos's real strengths. Mostly because, first off, it someone breaks his concentration at the moment of casting, a random spell is generated. And second, the actual casting is more dangerous. Energy is held onto for a bit longer and it lingers around the caster longer, adding up the chance of EPIC EXPLODING ULRIN.
In our little RP there, he was using this, however. He was juicing up on energy. But no mages were around to actually notice. If any had been around, I'd probably have whispered it to them that they could feel energy building up near Ulrin. He also earned a counter there for holding out on a fully prepped spell without casting it the moment it was ready. Probably should've added two because he does it again the second time XD *only just realised*

But yeah, if we go with Edderp's system of being able to switch between spells in the school, all this wouldn't be an issue like he said. All chaos spells look the same to the untrained eye XD
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:37 am

Frankly any buildup of energy should manifest itself regardless whether mages are present or not.

Surely the mages would recognize the energy for what it is, namely chaotic in this case.
But it seems rather strange to prep energy without any effect of sorts.
Especially chaos magic, which tends to be rather obvious if you compare to other systems.

Muscles tense before delivering a hard blow, so should energy be noticable during the buildup.
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:36 am

First off, his knuckles did crackle ;p
And second, he stores energy inside of his body. KRYPTONIAN SKINCELLS. XD
So unless you can actually notice energy move through space, which I would find odd if you aren't a mage/robot/magerobot/pony, no one would be the wiser.

But again, as I said before, this is for small spells with small effects. Most of Ulrin's bigger spells, and I'm talking 4 preps and up here, are always quite noticeable. Not to mention they require a whole lot more concentration, in which case he wouldn't be leaping around.
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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:39 pm

Blarbledeegarble etc. etc.

Ulrin, you're already covered by the system. Spellcasturrz can switch spells within the school they began casting from. I'm thinking of Kain's idea of still requiring an extra prep to change the spell to another, however. It's a good one.

But in Ulrin's case, he wouldn't need this extra prep, making his spells a lot more flexible for whatever is going on ROIGHT NOW ARGHHH.

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PostSubject: Re: Some more prep and battle rules ideas ;D   Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:49 pm

Alrighties then. thanks for the input!
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